Sometimes the path to working with corporate clients can seem one-dimensional and extremely narrow. In today's episode, I sit down with my guest Ebonye Gussine Wilkins to show you that that's not the case. Ebonye is the CEO and principal consultant of Inclusive Media Solutions, LLC. She's an expert at helping corporations and organizations take a critical look at the materials they produce. But her journey didn't start here. Through trial-and-error, hard work, and remaining true to herself, Ebonye has built a business that she is proud of. Ebonye and I cover her unique journey into the corporate sphere and what that journey can teach all of us about confidence and embracing our individuality in business. So hit play and settle in, friend. Let’s get started.
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You can find Ebonye at: www.inclusivemediasolutions.com, her LinkedIn or by sending her an email!
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0:00:09 Salutations, friend! Welcome to The Profit Scale podcast, where we help independent Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) entrepreneurs earn at their highest levels through securing corporate contracts.
I'm your host, Ruth-Joy Connell, your Corporate Consultant and Sales Enablement expert. I'm on a mission to equip you with the systems and strategies you’ll need to build a business of generational impact and income.
Around here, we bring culture and coins together — providing all the learning, community, and support you'll need as you scale your business. If you're ready to step into your next level of income and impact, then you, my friend are in the right place.
Turn up the volume and lean in, 'cause we're about to get started!
0:00:57 Salutations, friend! Welcome back to another episode of The Profit Scale.
You guys know that as you've been having these conversations, either with me or with some of the guests I bring to the show, each guest shares a slightly different perspective around what it looks like to work with corporate — some of their expertise around strategies and tips that can help you be more successful and others that share from their own experience about how they got into this journey and what it has looked like for them.
That said, I am so excited to welcome our guest, Ebonye Gussine Wilkins, to the show. I want to tell you a little bit about her before we jump into this conversation.
Ebonye is a social justice writer and editor, media activist, and the CEO and principal consultant of Inclusive Media Solutions, LLC. She has helped corporations, nonprofits, and local government [organizations]. She really works to help them assess their material and revise their content to better reflect the communities they serve.
Ebonye works with corporations to shift the focus towards what we could do now to make content more inclusive. She believes that the solutions we build with each other offer the next step toward shaping the world we want to become. This is just a little glimpse into our guest and who you're going to get to hear from today.
0:02:17 RC: Ebonye, welcome to the show.
Ebonye Gussine Wilkins: Thank you for having me, RJ.
RC: Of course! I always love when we get to connect. I think we initially connected maybe in 2019, or I don't even remember how far back it goes, but I know we've kind of run in the same circle since around then. We got connected through another group that we were in together and then had the chance to stay connected.
Every time we get to talk, I always love it. I'm so proud of you. I'm so excited for you. It's just been such a privilege for me to watch you progress in serving corporate clients.
You've always been amazing at what you do, but it's been awesome for me to get to watch you do it bigger and better each year. So I'm really excited for our conversation today.
EW: So am I. It has been really nice having you in my corner.
0:03:03 RC: I love that. Well, I always like to start off with the person behind the professional. So I'd love it if you could share with us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this career path.
EW: Back even in junior high school, middle school, I think I've always been in, had an interest in publishing. I can remember a comic strip that I made for my history class back then. From the school newspaper in high school to being a writer for a peer-reviewed journal in college, I've just always been in publishing in some way.
Around ten years ago, I decided to write a book, and I published it myself. And I said, “This process was really interesting. I'd like to bring the editorial work in-house."
I put myself through a certification program where I learned how to be an editor. From then, it all just took off.
I've absolutely fallen in love with editorial work. I'm not even sure why, but it's something that has always interested me, and it turns out I'm really good at it.
RC: Absolutely. What about the social justice aspect of it? How did that come into play for you?
EW: Well, when I was living in California, I was working for a think tank. It was surrounding social justice. That was my first official dive into it. As I later learned about myself, I've been doing social justice inclusion kind of work since I was in high school.
Even when I was in high school and having lunch, I went to a pretty diverse high school. I was always had that table where I was inviting people from different corners of the cafeteria, which was also different corners of the world, to come and sit together. A lot of times those people didn't even speak the same language as I do. It was just an opportunity to bring people together and I realized that I've always been doing that work.
When I fell into the work formally at this think tank, it was a head dive into all of the social issues that so many of us experience all the time. I learned more about the frameworks behind it and how it affected people.
For the first time in my life, I actually had a vocabulary to explain all of the things that I had felt and experienced, and observed in the world. Then I said, "I love this work." At the time, I happened to be doing editorial work for that, so I got to combine the two, and I've been doing it ever since.
RC: I love that. It sounds like it's something that, like you said, has been a passion for you since you were younger. Then, as you progressed in your career and evolved — and then had that vocabulary to then express fully what you wanted to do and how you show up and blend the two passions that you have together with the editorial work and then with the work... pairing that with work in social justice — you were able to create or really find the space where you could thrive professionally.
I love that.
EW: It's really nice, and I realized — I don't think it was conscious at first — but I realized that all of the things that we do in editorial work, in media work, in all of it, has a real-world impact on the most marginalized of us. It feels like such a responsibility to do this work and to know that the things that I do affect other people.
When I figured out eventually, with your help, that I can make an entire business out of this, it was a complete game changer. I'm like, "I can do good and make money. That's kind of amazing. Why are we not all doing this?" But, it's also a recognition that we don't all start from the same place.
RC: Yeah.
EW: It's both an honor and a privilege to be able to do this kind of work.
0:07:15 RC: I want to dive deeper into that. I want to actually walk through your journey.
Part of why I thought it would be so great for you to be part of the show and to get to share your story is because there are so many women who are listening and starting off in a similar place that you were a few years back.
Where they have this expertise, they have something that they are passionate about, extremely skilled in, and knowledgeable in, and often have spent years building up that skill and expertise in their corporate jobs. Now, they're at a place where they're looking at what does this look like for me to branch out on my own?
That doesn't necessarily mean, "Quit your nine-to-five," but "What does it mean for me to be able to still do this work, but under the umbrella of my own name, so that I have more freedom around what this looks like and, of course, can generate more income for myself and my family, etc.?".
I really want to walk through your journey, go a few years back, and tell me about where you were with your business. How did you get your business started and decide that you were going to work with corporate clients? What did that look like for you, maybe a few years ago, when you were just starting?
EW: When I was just starting, I was basically trying to make full-time work out of the kinds of social justice editorial work that I had been doing for the think tank. I had decided, "This is what I want to do. Why not branch out? There are other think tanks and other nonprofits that need this kind of work. Why not put myself in a position to do that?"
Working with Nonprofits and Individuals
0:08:48 That's what I tried to do. Doing editorial work and one-off editorial work for nonprofits is a grind. It's a tough grind, and there is not a whole lot of money in it the way I was approaching it. Just because I couldn't figure out a way for me to be profitable that way, does not mean that it's not a profitable way to make a living.
You see, this kind of work — and just entrepreneurship, in general — it takes a very active imagination and a lot of elbow grease to get things going.
The way my mind worked, I realized that I needed to do something different.
First, I was going to nonprofits and saying, "Hey, I can edit your reports for you. I have a social justice lens. I can do all of this for you. I can design your publications. I can edit your work for better inclusion." Then I said, "Maybe I could work for individuals to do the same thing." It turns out that was not a strength of mine.
Selling to individuals is absolutely not a strength of mine. It requires being visible all the time, being active all the time, and being on social media much more often than I would like. I mean, I think we all like funny memes, but funny memes in my particular world are not going to get you business — they're just not.
I had to remember, I'm going to keep coming back to this theme of, "You have to have an imagination to think outside the box, and think about... Just because someone else is doing something one way doesn't mean that that's the way to do it. It doesn't mean it's the only way to do it. It doesn't mean that you can't take the lessons you learn from there, add your own twist to it, and take it in a different direction."
That was a lesson that I had to learn.
Before I came to you, I had definitely figured out that, man, selling to individuals is not working for me. I am not a mind reader. I do not like trying to convince people that they need my solution. I felt like selling to individuals was more exercise in understanding what they needed me to know they needed.
I am not a mind reader. I was being tortured by having to do this.
I said to myself, "I want to be able to just show people that they have a problem, show them that I can offer a solution, and if we agree that this is an interesting way to approach it, this is a different way to approach it, or this is a way that they have not tried yet, then we should work together."
In my opinion, it should be as simple as that, but I didn't have the language for this either until I met you, RJ.
Realizing Alignment in Selling to Corporate
0:11:52 EW: Then you showed me... You showed me that things could be different selling to corporate and that selling to corporate seemed to be much more in line with my natural abilities of saying, "This is the problem, this is the solution, this is how we can work together to get there." That's not necessarily the same case for someone who wants to work with other individuals. You can understand their feelings. You can understand their motivations.
With corporate, their motivation is usually to get money and, secondary, to avoid lawsuits. [Do] you know what helps avoid lawsuits? Being inclusive.
RC: Absolutely. Thank you for sharing this. I think that frames your start very well. Again, I think a lot of people can relate to this, of having this skill set and wondering, "What does it look like for me to take this skill and expertise that I've developed over the years and do more with it? What is more for me?"
You really pointed out that one of the realizations that you had on this journey was recognizing that there are many ways to do something and that you had to find the way that was going to work for you, so you did some trial and error.
You worked with nonprofits. You worked with individuals. Then, eventually came to a place where you decided working with organizations suited you, your personality, your skill set, the service, and the impact you wanted to create best.
At that time, when you're now transitioning from working with individuals — and I want to ask as well when you're working with individuals and nonprofits — in terms of the revenue that was coming in, was that meeting your expectations around, I guess, what you wanted to be making in your business?
EW: Working with individuals did not meet my revenue expectations at all. Just because you could get a good rate on certain projects and certain endeavors does not mean at all that it can be consistent, and you cannot pay yourself if you are not consistent.
I realized that going after corporate money is going to be... It's still a very difficult thing to do, but it is not impossible because there are ways that you can approach it to make it sustainable. That's the key.
There was a lot less guesswork — it's less guesswork — a little bit less trial and error, and you can put the full genius of yourself behind it.
RC: What do you mean by that?
Working With a Template
0:14:37 EW: If you understand... It's like working with a template. If you understand what you're supposed to be doing, you can focus on filling in the details.
The details are going to look different depending on the kind of person you are, the kind of business you're running, and the kind of outcomes that you want to achieve. You get to make those decisions. You don't have to stop and worry, "How am I going to..." Well, you don't necessarily have to worry about, “How am I going to build this?"
Now, if you're someone like me, who's really ambitious and really into intellectual property, then yes, you are going to be focused on building all things and making it so that you can build the kind of company, not just business that you want to have.
Outside of that, if you're just getting started and you know that there's a template that works that can get results, then you can just worry about filling in the details.
When you have that rolling along really nicely, then you can say, "Okay, how can I make this sustainable for me? How can I reach my goals? How can I reset my goals so that I'm actually getting what I want and not replicating what someone else has or what someone else wants?"
You get to make it about yourself, your needs, and your goals instead of just trying to become the next XYZ. I don't want to be the next XYZ; I want people to be the next Ebonye.
RC: I love that. Yes, absolutely. What a beautiful analogy for using that template, an analogy of, it's like working with organizations is like having a template.
From my understanding of what you shared, you're referring to the process as opposed to an individual email template for those who might be thinking and getting a little bit more granular. From what Ebonye is talking about is that working with corporate is usually a little bit more formulaic in that there are steps that you can take.
It's still going to take time.
You shared, Ebonye, that it's still a process. There are still challenges along the way. It's going to take time even when you're doing everything right. I always like to stress that time is a factor that you cannot skip ahead, you cannot go around, you cannot shorten, even per se. You still have to go through the process. Time is always going to be a component of that process.
As you're talking about [or use] the analogy of the process, likening it to a template and having that template, how did you then begin to fill in the template in the ways that were reflective of you, Ebonye — who you wanted to work with and how you wanted to show up?
EW: Well, the way that I prospect is directly reflective of the people and organizations I want to serve.
For example, if someone has hired me before, then I have a really good understanding of what they need, where their pain points are, and where they want to go. Do my services fit those needs? They do because they've already hired me, and I know that. I can go and meet them where they are.
Request for Proposals (RFPs)
0:18:06 EW: If I want to work with local government organizations, pitching them is not necessarily the fastest or best way to go about them. The government will tell you what they need. They do that by doing RFPs: Requests for Proposals.
They're literally saying, "This is a problem that I have. I want you to solve it for me. I want all of the qualified people to tell me how they can solve it for me, and I will take it under consideration." If people are literally telling you what they want, it's a matter of meeting... Writing a proposal that meets their needs and sending it in.
Now, it's still a slow process, just like pitching corporate is a slow process, but they're telling you what they need. There's no guesswork there. It's just a matter of, "Do you fit in where they want you to be?"
Those are two ways that I do to get or attract business.
Referrals
0:19:09 EW: The third way is referrals. Referrals are really nice when you can get them because it's basically someone who's already had success with you vouching that this works; I love working with this person. They met my needs, they are great to work with, and you should work with them too.
RC: Thank you for sharing that.
It's really insightful to hear about the different ways that you approach — seeing what opportunities are out there in terms of working with organizations and governments and then also attracting opportunities to you.
One of the ways that you didn't share was the work that you do in terms of publications and writing that you do, which not just aligns with your expertise and your skill set but also really establishes your authority in your market.
I'd like you to touch on that a little bit and just kind of share what that looks like. It's really important for people to understand that, as you said earlier, there is no one way to do things. You have spent a lot of time, even before we met, showing up in the places that your people were and doing that in ways that aligned with you.
I'd love for you to just touch on that a little bit. Just to share: How do you show up in your own space, in your own market, where you know the type of organizations that you want to work with are present or are looking to these publications as places of authority?
0:20:34 EW: Some of the ways that I understand what people are looking for and how they show up is that I'm in online networking circles of people doing related work.
Sometimes those people will say, "Hey, I'm looking for someone who does this kind of work." Sometimes people will tag me and say, "Hey, Ebonye does this kind of work." Sometimes it is referrals, people who've actually worked with me. Someone who's worked with me versus someone aware of what I do. Those are two completely different things. Sometimes, I go to conferences. I have a conference coming up where I am leading workshops that I have written myself on how to do this work.
A lot of people come to me based on knowing that I do this kind of work, whether they find me in the Editors of Color Database, or they find me with the EFA: Editorial Freelance Association, or they find me through some other way.
People who want to work with me know that I do Sensitivity Reviews, which is an editorial service that allows people to review content for issues of inclusion, stereotypes, or any of those bad things that make you wonder what people were thinking when they put them out.
The services I offer are sort of ounce of prevention kind of thing.
People come to me before things are out and say, "Ebonye, help me make this better."
People know that about me, so that's why they come to me. That's also why people are like, "I've heard Ebonye does this work. You should go to her too, for the same reason."
RC: I love that you're sharing this and also gave some examples of the places where you show up and places where people find you.
It's so important to stress, and I love that our audience is getting to hear this from you instead of me telling them to show up where their audience is and that LinkedIn, while it is a fantastic platform and a great place to reach people, it's not the only place.
You don't only have to be on social media.
If other methods are effective for you in getting in front of your target audience and building connections or relationships or knowledge about who you are and what you do, if there are other places that are equally as effective, if not more so, then showing up there is also part of your marketing strategy.
Just like Ebonye said, attending conferences or being in particular groups associated with your industry and expertise, whether being present in certain publications or part of certain networking groups. I just love that you are expanding the horizon of what it looks like to show up and what marketing looks like, especially in a B2B context, because it's not just LinkedIn, and it's not just emails.
You touched on RFPs as well and put yourself in the running for proposals that organizations, like governments, are already looking for.
There are so many different ways to do this. I just love that you are sharing this.
This is something that I firmly believe in, and I always encourage people to choose five events for the year. They don't have to all be international. They don't have to require travel. It could be down your street. It could be in your city, the neighboring city.
Choose five events where you can show up and build a network for yourself, whether that's local or whether that does require travel.
Of course, everybody can... What you can do in terms of travel, all of that's going to be different. If you can start getting in front of people who you can develop relationships with, and they know what you do, and you know what they do, and you can expand your network by meeting one or two or three other people — that is such an effective strategy when it comes to B2B.
Of course, a lot of this takes time. Most of this, none of it happens overnight. It's not an instant gratification tactic, but it is a reliable strategy for building long-term relationships with people who are in your market and who can then refer your business, and vice versa, you can refer them business.
I just love that. I think I went on a bit of a rant here, but I was like, "Yes, I'm so glad that you were able to give that."
EW: I totally agree. Once you get in front of people and they remember you, and they say, "Hey, can you come and solve my problem?" This is the golden part here.
Once you've worked with them and you've solved their problem, or you've worked with them and helped them advance in some way, that is your golden opportunity to take it a step further.
Something that has worked really well for me is making case studies.
0:25:19 EW: Once I've already solved a problem for a corporation, then I talk about it with their permission. Don't go against your contracts, people.
You understand the problem that they have, and you've made your solution work for them, so detail it out. Show people how you've solved this problem in the past. I can guarantee you, you get a couple of people under your belt, a couple of organizations hired you, and they're pleased with you, and you can write up a case study about it and say, "This is how I solved this problem."
I guarantee you, a few people down the line, they're going to say, "So have you solved this problem before? How did you solve this problem? Who else has trusted you with this work?" It's always about trust.
"Who else has trusted you with this work?" You can say, "Well, this is how I solved this problem before, this is who's trusted me with their work." People love to see that because it's sort of a version of social proof.
You have said, "This is what I can do for you. I've done it before, and let me tailor a solution to what you need." That's what they want to hear.
They don't want to hear about fast-action bonuses. They don't want to hear that the clock is going to run out if they do not hit that button at midnight. They're not interested in that — they're not.
They wanna know, "Can you solve my problem?" "Yes, I can. Let me show you how."
That is where it lives. That is where success lives. A testimonial is helpful, but a case study really lays it out.
You can shape that narrative. You can say, "This is the problem they had. This is the unique solution that I provided. This is how it panned out." People love that.
RC: You're essentially telling the story of what it was like to work with you from your clients' perspective.
Even if they are not there to express that, still their story that's being highlighted and the success and the journey and what that looks like, and it's a lot easier for organizations to connect with that than it is a testimonial.
One of the things that you said that I want to just highlight is: when you're sharing a case study, that is speaking the language of your prospect in the B2B market, whereas testimonials tend to work a little bit better in B2C.
That's not to say they're not effective in B2B, but an organization wants to see — just like individuals want to see themselves reflected, organizations want to see their organization reflected.
A case study allows you to do that because it takes an organization that was either similar to them in maybe their structure or their goal or similar in the problem that they were looking to solve and really walks them through, "Here's what I did, and here's how I partnered with this organization to get to the same result that you're looking to get to."
It is such an effective strategy for really building authority in that trust that you mentioned earlier with new prospects. I love that question that you posed as well, that organizations are asking, "Who else has trusted you with this work?"
Once you get that one client, I know that, for example, in Systems That Scale™, I talk about collecting data and making sure that you have data that you can go back to and say... And measure the impact of your work to say, "This is what I did. This is how we were able to get to this goal."
It makes such a difference to be able to lean on your own experience and showcase that as a way to build trust with your potential prospects.
0:29:00 RC Ebonye, for you, when you joined STS™ and were then focused on working with corporate clients, what was your goal, and what were you looking to accomplish through the program?
EW: You told me that I could get corporate clients, and I think that's what I want to do. It was as simple as that. You laid out all of the things that I needed to know in a way that helped me understand that this was possible for me.
15 years ago, I didn't know what freelancers were. I never understood what people said when they worked for themselves. I'm like, "How do you get clients? I don't know what that means. I don't understand what that means." That's because that wasn't the information that was available to me. This was still in the age of the Internet. You know, I'm older than Google, so...
RC: Most of us are. I saw that recently, and I was like, "That's crazy. Like, how is that possible?"
EW: That information wasn't available to me. For you, RJ, to come along and say, "I can show you how to do this." I believed you. I trusted you. I will tell you, everyone around me said, "I cannot believe you're going to do this." I said, "This is going to work." People were just like, "Well, that's too rich for my blood." I said, "This is going to work."
When I made back, I think, five or six times my investment, people looked at me with a shocked Pikachu face, I'm telling you. People could not believe it. It was hard for me to believe.
I remember signing two five-figure contracts, like two weeks apart, right before the New Year. I'm sitting there in my apartment with a shocked Pikachu look on my face because I said, "I did it. I did this."
Then earlier this year, I closed the biggest one yet. I'm telling you, shocked Pikachu face, I said, "I did that based on all the other things I learned from the last time", so this is now an accumulative effect.
I made my own templates. I understood my own story. I laid it out for people. I met with people. I talked with people. I understood people. I listened. I used some common sense and hired a lawyer when I needed to. I got to tell you, it worked.
Flabbergasted is not even the word because, well, it shouldn't be the word because I worked hard, and I put in the work.
RC: You did.
EW: I understood what I was doing, and I trusted the process. Why wouldn't it work for me? Why wouldn't it? There's no reason for it not to if you put in the work and you listen to good advice, not the glam clan on the internet with the fancy photo shoots and the shiny marketing funnels, and the sales pages that are 10 miles long. I put in the work. I understood what I was doing. I stayed focused. Why wouldn't it work?
I stayed the course. Why wouldn't it work? It did work. It's worked again and again and again. Why should I listen to other people when everyone else is running around shiny objects? I'm like, "Well, I have a signed contract here, and I have signed contract there. I have these people who are talking to me about maybe signing other contracts."
It's incredulous, and it's fantastic at the same time because you're saying, "I did this." My own mother is manifesting to me that, "Oh, you're going to get these contracts and sign these figures and all of these things." I'm like, "Yep, I'm going to do that. I don't know how but it will come because I know what I'm doing," because I followed the process.
RC: I don't know, this makes me so happy.
I'm sure, well, you can see my face, and I'm sure those who are listening can just hear the smile in my voice and the warmth, like I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy for you because, Ebonye, you said it, you did the work. You did the work. You were the one who showed up.
Even when there were times when things were taking longer than we expected them to take in terms of going back and forth with organizations. Sometimes where it was like, "Hey, they haven't responded to me. Do I follow up? Like, I followed up a few times now, should I still follow up?" And really leaned into the process through the discomfort. I want to really highlight that and celebrate you 'cause you did it.
Even after, it's been well over a year since you finished the program. Even after you have left, you've continued to see success in working with organizations and have had, like you said, your biggest contract to date, and that just makes me so happy.
I'm so happy for you and just so excited to see you continue to grow and the confidence that you have in yourself and your ability to do this successfully.
You have answered that question for yourself, "Can I do it?" The answer is yes.
You showed yourself that truth and made it a reality. Just like you said now, your mom is manifesting that, "Hey, these bigger things are down the road," and you can believe that that's true for you. That roadblock, that hump of really believing that this is possible, is a very big challenge that a lot of women face, so I'm so grateful to hear you share your journey and for others to be able to hear that you asked yourself that same question, "Can I do this?" You decided that the answer was yes, so you showed up accordingly. I just... I love that. I'm so happy for you. I'm so, so, so happy.
EW: Thank you.
RC: Congratulations! It's a huge milestone.
EW: The confidence builds. It's slow, but it builds. I have to tell you, you look at... You put in all of the work. You write your proposals. You send them out. You wait. You follow up. You go through the whole thing. Then when they say, "Okay, send me the contract." You're in contract negotiations, you're just like, "Oh, no, contract negotiations. Where is the lawyer? I have to read all of this." Then you think to yourself, "I don't have all of the resources that these big companies have. How can I negotiate?"
Well, let me tell you something. The very first contract that I negotiated under your leadership, RJ, was for a subsidiary of a conglomerate. These people have lawyers. Their lawyers have lawyers. There are just lawyers all over the place. There are clauses and just things all over the place.
I successfully negotiated that on my own. I knew when to walk away. I knew what concessions I wanted to make. It was really scary at first. It was really scary until you get that ink dry, and then you celebrate.
Then, the next time you have a contract negotiation, you know what you say, "I've done this before." You know what to look out for. You know when to back down. You hope that you don't have to, but you know when to back down. The confidence just continues to grow. When you encounter more prospects, get more clients, and work through these contracts with them — agreements, not just the legalese — you learn even more things, which makes you even more confident for the next one.
The confidence just continues to build. I don't know what I'm going to be like in 10 years, but, oh man, I'm looking forward to it.
RC: Me too! Me too.
You know, negotiations, it is a scary part of the process. I think, especially when you're first getting started, almost every step can feel scary 'cause it feels uncertain. There's a lot of uncertainty when you're asking yourself, "Can I do this? Will this actually happen?"
Every little step you take forward still feels like you're stepping on unstable ground because it hasn't been tested yet and proven, so you can maybe rest a little bit as you take that next step forward. Especially when you get to negotiations, that's a foreign concept in the world of B2C.
When something is a particular price, at least here in North America, other countries in the world, and other parts of the world, haggling and negotiating is a thing, but not so much here.
When you see a price while working with an individual or buying from a business as an individual, the price is usually the price.
The price is not even the only... That's usually the only thing that we're looking at is price. We don't get to negotiate around shipping and handling and how we're going to receive that package or whatever it may be.
When you get into the world of B2B, you are not just looking at the price. That is just one small thing in the scope of the whole contract and what it's going to look like to work together.
Then you have all of these other contracts and clauses around intellectual property, the scope of work, and all these other things that can be new and maybe unfamiliar to navigate that also sometimes make you question, "If I challenge this or if I push back on this, is this going to end the deal? Is this going to kill the deal here, and then I have to walk away, or then I have to start all over again?"
It can feel very scary to go into that first set of negotiations and recognize that. Even the negotiations are a part of the process. They are a normal part, a normal expectation for organizations.
There are other suppliers, other small business owners, who have received contracts from larger organizations, especially ones that might be as big as the one that you worked with and can feel very intimidated. They don't push back. They don't make sure that the working agreement of that contract is reflective of what's important to them and of course, protective of them as well.
I say that to say that you, going into that process and being willing, you knew what your concessions were. You knew if and when you would walk away from that agreement. Even just that, the willingness to walk away. Even though, of course, that's not the outcome we're hoping for, but if that's what it came to, then you were determined to put yourself, your business, your expertise, and your IP, and make sure that those things were protected, so you could continue to do the work you love beyond that one potential contract.
If it didn't work out, you had decided, "My skill, my expertise is worth more than whatever number might be coming from this organization. Here's how I'm going to protect and honor what's important to me, and I'm going to bring that to the table. What I think others maybe don't yet realize is that, in doing so, even that creates trust in the prospect you're looking to work with. That negotiation process takes your professionalism to a whole new level.
They now know you are not just an expert in the service that you're providing, but you are professional overall. You know what to look for. You can bring your thoughts, ideas, and concerns to the table confidently and create a space for discussion around them.
All of that to say for those who might still be feeling a little nervous about negotiations and, "What do I say? And what does this look like?" All that to say, you can have success with negotiations just like Ebonye has. Do it in a way that aligns with you, what you're looking for, how you want to serve and show up, and is protective of your expertise and authority.
I'm so grateful that you shared that. Just that insight, I know, is going to be so helpful to the women who are listening to recognize, "Okay, I can say what I want," you know, is probably the best way to put it. "I can be clear and say what I want and lean into that."
EW: Absolutely.
RC: Okay, so we're wrapping up. This has been such a wonderful discussion. I'm just so grateful.
Ebonye, thank you so much for really just sharing your story openly and your process. I know that those who are listening are going to be encouraged by your story. Recognizing that, for me, one of the biggest things that are encouraging that you shared is really you decided, as you were asking yourself the question, "Can I do this?" You decided that the answer was yes.
You showed up accordingly, and even years later, after you finished the program, even though we're not working together, you are continuing to operate in that belief. In that confidence of, "I can do this," you are continuing to see the results of that and the benefits of that.
0:42:08 RC: That's one of the biggest pieces of encouragement even for me as we're having this conversation. I'd love to know what's a piece of advice that you would share with a woman who is asking herself that same question, "Can I do this?"
EW: I would say that, "You are much more powerful than you think." I had zero examples of what this could look like before I met RJ. Zero examples. I literally did not know a single soul in this world who had closed a corporate contract, and I decided that I was going to be the first one of the people I know to do it.
Every time I write a proposal, every time I negotiate a contract, and every time I send an invoice, I am asserting and realizing and remembering that I am powerful because these people want to work with me. These organizations are putting their trust in me.
I am worthy of their trust, I am worthy of their respect, and I'm worthy of their money.
RC: Yes.
EW: I don't need to second guess myself in a way that devalues me.
Every single time I go through this process, I will feel a little bit nervous. I understand that that's just a lot of conditioning from a long history of not knowing things and not knowing people, but I can become those things and become those people, and people can eventually look to me. You are so much more powerful than you think. Learn to trust yourself and be honest with yourself; your intuition will show you a lot more than you think.
RC: I love that. I encourage you — everybody who's listening — I encourage you to, even if it's just this very last part of what Ebonye shared, just rewind that and replay it for yourself and use that as your own affirmation, your own encouragement.
Ebonye, you said when you started, you didn't know anybody who had secured a corporate contract, but because you did it, because you stepped out, because you believed in yourself, now every other woman who's listening does know somebody who secured a corporate contract, and you can be, for some of them, that first person that they know.
I'm so grateful for you being willing to share your story and just partner with me in this way to really encourage the women who are listening. Ebonye, thank you so, so, so much. It's been a pleasure.
EW: Thank you so much, RJ.
0:45:02 RC: All right, friend. If you enjoyed today's discussion, be sure to connect with our guest on social media using the links in the episode description.
As always, I'm so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me, and it's my hope that each episode plays a part in moving you one step closer to building a business that will have a generational impact.
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